Nancy Vonk and Janet Kestin rose to the top of their profession as women despite some old-boys-club naysayers along the way. Take the issue of being a mom and a leader in the workplace. While the former co-CCOs of Ogilvy Toronto agree that a great part of their success comes from motherhood (and the time management prowess it brings), not everyone they’ve worked with has felt the same. Vonk recalls some somber advice she was given early in her career when it came to having kids and leading a creative department: “Darling, you can’t do both,” she was told.
In a lively and no-holds-barred presentation at last week’s m:Ad Women event in Toronto, which was organized by the Institute of Communication Agencies and Microsoft Advertising, the co-founders of creative leadership lab Swim addressed the professional hurdles they faced as women and shared the rules they believe women should break to find success.
“Nice girls don’t get in your face”
Nancy Vonk
Vonk spoke of how women are groomed to be “pleasers” and do things like agree to work on projects over the weekend. But achieving ambitious goals requires assertiveness, she said. No meek wallflower herself, Vonk admitted she can be bossy and was born with a bullhorn in her hand, yet still there were times where she did a disservice to herself and her team “when it was easier to be the nice girl.”
There was the time, for example, that she was involved in filling a position at the office, and while one candidate looked good on paper, Vonk had some nagging doubts after some reference calls left her skeptical. Time was of the essence to make the hire since a client had told her team to fill the spot soon or they wouldn’t get an account. In a panic, they made the hire. In the end he was a talented employee, but wasn’t a fit for the team. Vonk’s doubts were borne out.
When it comes to saying no (rather than saying yes to avoid conflict), she said you should ask yourself questions such as “Does my ‘yes’ align with my personal values?” and “Does my ‘yes’ align with the values of the brand or my company?” Also ask yourself “What’s the absolute worst that can happen if I say ‘no?’”
“Good girls finish last”
Janet Kestin
Kestin asked how many people in the room had a mentoring program in their company. Hardly any hands went up. She spoke of how she and Vonk ran the internship program at Ogilvy and dedicated a lot of time to growing the talent there. Interns were paid and expected to deliver and when they did—and this was the tricky bit—the senior team often needed to be convinced to put their own egos aside and accept that an intern had come up with a better idea.
The way to develop your own leadership skills is by helping other people and bring their ideas to life, said Kestin.
“Get out the golf clubs”
For a big part of her career, Vonk dismissed networking and counted on her own hard work speaking for itself. Her thinking was “I don’t have time for that bullshit,” knowing she didn’t want to take up golf to get facetime with movers and shakers. But she’s now embraced how powerful and healthy networking can be. And the good news is it doesn’t have to take place on a golf course. By joining several awards juries over the years, Vonk said she’s made strong connections.
“I have been the token female on every jury in the world,” she (half) joked. She said sitting on juries is “a hotbed of networking.” By forming relationships with peers in more senior roles, she was able to gain new perspectives about business and even clients. (Vonk also mentioned her support of a new program from the Art Directors Club that aims to get a 50/50 split of men and women on juries moving forward.)
Vonk recommended making it a priority to network regularly and with purpose. Even a quick email to a different contact every day is a good way to keep up ties.
